The new Raspberry Pi 4 is out and about. The new model has something folk have been screaming for i.e. 2GB and 4GB RAM options, not only that but BUSTER, the new version of Raspbian which is not only supported but recommended – and it is backward compatible. In my limited experience it is also beautiful. Read the July 9 update after the break… I wrote the original article when the Pi4 first appeared but a lot has happened since then – see also the comments in here.
The Raspberry Pi site states prices (in US dollars) from $35 for the 1GB RAM version, up to $55 for the 4GB version. The new board has both USB2 and USB3 but the original standard HDMI connector has gone in favour of two micro HDMI connectors, great for 4K dual screen action, all good stuff but totally wasted if you’re planning headless operation. We are now looking at a 64-bit 1.5Ghz quad core Cortex A72 (Arm V8). There is now USB-C for power – (3 amps). The new board is supposed to be backward-compatible with previous models and the new operating system version (Buster)certainly is in my very limited experience (I’ve been using Jessie for a long time now). I’m awaiting delivery of the 2GB model of the RPI4 just to get extra RAM without losing the very useful RPI-Clone (and let’s not forget the extra speed). Gigabit Ethernet is of course built-in along with Bluetooth 5.0 and WIFI. I’m assuming that serial port remains as grim as in the past (competitors have up to 4 serial ports) but that’s just an assumption. I’ll soon report on that first hand.
Not sure about HDR yet for the video and we never did get a decent Android + PlayStore running on the Pi3 – my own Pi use case does not involve multimedia as I prefer a decent Android-9-based TV box such as the H96 Max – but that’s just me. If a TV box won’t run ShowBox then I’m not interested. As a home controller however, having tried many different SBCs over recent years, I remain committed to the Raspberry Pi so the Model 4 is likely to get at least one job, probably two or more.
Note that Pi4 quoted UK prices are £34-£54 depending on which memory option you go for. With the upper-end RAM pricing being a tad high I can see lots of life remaining in existing competition, some of which has had 2GB or more RAM for some time.
On June 24, 2019 first thing in the morning, I checked the links from the raspberrypi.org site. In the UK, Pimoroni and Pi Hut showed as £34 for the basic model – in stock, meanwhile in the USA, PiShopUS link was dead, Newark.com had no stock ($35 for the basic model), Chicago Electronic Distributors had no stock ($35 for the basic model), in Spain (and Italy), Kubii wanted 37.95 Euros for the basic model and (in Spain) Tiendatec wanted 38.95 Euros for same.
So there it is, a brand new Raspberry Pi and if TKaiser is right, sequential SD data transfer rates should potentially be twice as fast, up from 25MB/S to 50MB/S with the right SD cards as the Pi4 supports switching to 1.8v apparently. I can’t wait.
Meanwhile THIS:
grep -rl stretch /etc/apt/ | sudo xargs sed -i ‘s/stretch/buster/g’
sudo apt update && sudo apt dist-upgrade
sudo apt purge timidity lxmusic gnome-disk-utility deluge-gtk evince wicd wicd-gtk clipit usermode gucharmap gnome-system-tools pavucontrol
I have taken the plunge and upgraded (the least-recommended route apparently) my fully up-to-date RPI 3 installation based on Raspbian Stretch, to Buster (using nothing more than the 3 lines you see above above (as user pi). When I say installation, my setup was/is WAY too involved to simply start from scratch – had the upgrade above not worked, I would have had to stay with Raspbian Stretch. Once again I stand by rpi-clone because using it gave me the confidence to go ahead with this upgrade. and the (massive) set of updates referred to below.
Why is this a big deal? Well, the PI3 here is one of my two home control setups of which some of you are well aware – which include Node-Red and many nodes including my own BigTimer (well, lots of them actually) and many other nodes designed by myself and others (mostly others), NGINX, Maria, SQLITE, MQTT, PHP, Grafana with InfluxDB, Blynk and so much more…. the whole lot had to work for the upgrade to Buster to be practical for me – and guess what – it does work (including audio using Amazon and MPG123), which means there’s a DAMNED good chance the Pi4 will work without a hitch when it arrives.
Excited? You bet.
Update July 09, 2019: As if the last update to Buster wasn’t enough, after 4 days at the coast enjoying Spanish sunshine, this afternoon I ran “sudo apt-get update” and “sudo apt-get upgrade” again to get a MASSIVE set of updates but not before making a backup. with rpi-clone. 100MB extra storage used and MASSIVE upgrading – I’m so glad I’m using a 16GB SD and not an 8GB which by now would be well and truly overflowing.
I’m not sure I’m able to convey the scale of the many, MANY hundreds of package upgrades that just took place automatically – See the snippet. In future I think I may move to 32GB SDs just to give plenty of margin for expansion and wear-levelling. That seems to be the current recommendation. Given the time this last update took, I can see how moving to RPI-4 will be sensible – I sat here for an hour or so watching processing of updates that were not requested as little as a week ago on my Raspberry Pi 3 B+. Unbelievable. Incidentally I left dhcpcd.conf as-is when asked if I wanted to change it. Testing took longer than the installation. You can’t be too careful.
Despite the above, as far as I am able to tell, everything is working, just as it was after the initial upgrade to Buster.
As for the size of this new monster and the number of updates – https://bitbucket.org/snippets/scargill/rAyKaa/first-big-upgrade-july-9-2019-after-buster
To say that I am stunned that this last update/upgrade all worked apparently flawlessly would be an understatement. I’ve checked sound including cached and uncached Amazon AWS (Emily), Node-Red and the UI, MQTT, Blynk, SQlite inc SQLite Admin, Pi-Hole, PiVPN, Grafana, PHPSysInfo, MCEDIT, Maria using phpMyAdmin, I2c using Python… you name it, I’ve checked. AND, I still have nearly 500 MB of RAM free on my Pi3 and I’ve 6GB of 14GB free (it was a 16GB Sandisk Ultra SD)… can’t wait to try the Pi4 at the weekend. I think I’ll order a 32GB Sandisk Ultra SD for good measure.
July 11, 2019: Note that GSMARENA refers to a potential issue with the USB-C power connector on the RPI-4 – be aware of this if using a non-official power lead.
https://www.gsmarena.com/the_raspberry_pi_4_has_a_notable_usb_typec_power_issue-news-38057.php
In Spain I found the official RPI4 supply supply available at €8.95 which is not great ….that does not include post but it DOES include VAT. The RPI site has links for suppliers in all supported countries. raspipc.es are more expensive but the postage is lower. Kubii in the Spanish section appear to cover France rather than Spain – I could be wrong.
So, it is starting to look like the real price of a Pi4 1GB is more like €38 + €14 for a power supply plus a heatsink and fan and post? Could be life in the old PI3 B+ yet (with Buster of course). Time will tell. Pi4 Desktop kit comes to €130 or thereabouts – one could buy a mini-PC for much less from China. Kubii in Spain want €48.95 for the 2GB basic Pi4. Add PSU and post and you are looking at €62.43 without case or heatsink. Add case at 5.95 + post and then at a minimum add a heatsink…. British, Italian and French prices will be similar. I do hope RPI are not losing the plot here. As for education, what schools can afford to pay for lots of those kits? None where I live in the UK that’s for sure. On the contrary a little ESP-32 board with display costs what? €14 – add supply – total less than €20. Not as powerful of course but then schools have very little money and anything is better than nothing. ESP8266 (or ESP32) with Arduino online development environment seems like a good educational starting point.
For me, I have most of the needed extras lying around and I’m sure many readers do but that’s because I’m a techy, not an educator.
July 12, 2019: Meanwhile, Mr Shark has written in about potential heat issues with RPi4 and pointed me to hackster.io – here’s a link to the hackster.io page where they suggest a fan and some software to control the fan, (ultimately a quiet Pimoroni fan shim).
July 14. 2029: Be aware that I have upgraded my Raspberry Pi 3 successfully to Buster from Stretch as you see above – NO problems and will soon report on RPI4. HOWEVER, I’ve ALSO tried a completely fresh install of the SCRIPT on Buster, up to now with very little success. I took a virgin PI3, installed BUSTER on it (the full version desktop without the recommended software). No I didn’t use NOOBS.
The SCRIPT (or rather some of its contents) failed miserably). Node-Red worked though SQLITE3 node (surprise surprise) node apparently failed. No Mosquitto MQTT. No Java 8. When I tried my web page that would not come up so I’m assuming the web service is also dead. No Grafana… at this point I don’t yet have solutions so I’m going to stick to upgrading from stretch. If anyone wants the LOG file for the install I can make that available. If anyone has definitive solutions for the failures please do write in..
Thanks
I had done that. Just found that I can open html files. So.. problem with php files.
I’ve double checked all the lines in the nginx.conf.
Very strange. I have repeated the upgrade (same as yours) 5 times now and each time I get the 502 error, as well as permission issues to var/www/html.
This all worked perfectly on the “stretch” version.
Looks like I’ll have to go for a clean install.
check in nginx config which user is used (usually www-data for debian and ubuntu derived distros) and chown that directory to him:
sudo chown -R www-data.www-data /var/www
I have successfully upgraded to Buster using the 3 liner but now Nginx gives me “502 Bad Gateway ” when I try to access any of the php files in var/www/html.
Anyone else getting this?
I upgraded from a working Stretch to Buster using the 3 liner and as far as I can tell, everything works – I listed the items I know are working – all of this is on Raspberry Pi 3 B+ and now on Raspberry Pi 4 (except in the latter I can’t boot from USB yet but it seems that’s a deliberate omission for now). I am using NGINX as well and that appears to have upgraded perfectly. PHPSYSAMIN is working. Thats all I can tell you from my Perspective. A FRESH install of, as against an upgrade to Buster works but using the script on that is still a work in progress.
Hello Pete
I really do like rpi-clone.
See below last part of cloning with my new ssd acting as root, with the sd card only acting as boot see the editing of cmdline.txt and stab
really impressive on pi3 updated to Buster
I use it on pi4
=> rsync // /mnt/clone with-root-excludes …
Mounting /dev/sdb1 on /mnt/clone/boot
=> rsync /boot/ /mnt/clone/boot …
Editing /mnt/clone/boot/cmdline.txt PARTUUID to use ab239f47
Editing /mnt/clone/etc/fstab PARTUUID to use ab239f47
===============================
Done with clone to /dev/sdb
Start – 20:59:07 End – 21:04:40 Elapsed Time – 5:33
unmounting /mnt/clone/boot
unmounting /mnt/clone
regards brian
Hello Pete
yes rpi-clone by me also works no problem with updated stretch lite to Buster on pi3.
I also used the card in my pi4
using rpi-clone no problem copying to a cd crd in usb adapter
I also have an ssd connected to USB3 boot on sd and root on ssd
works a treat.
if you power down remove the sd card and leave the sdcard in usb slot does not boot as we know awaiting a firmware change.
Put in cardholder boots ok
The problem is if you are only using the pi4 with Buster and you use the official Busterlite img and havent got a sdcard cloned from pi3
your new flows are on buster pi4 you use rpi-clone to copy it
my problems were on the pi4. With exectly the same card put in usb holder into USb2 or 3 it did not see the usb no dev. I then created folder to be able to mount dev and give mount permissions. After that I could at least start rp-clone to copy but not always 75% of the time get Mounting /dev/sda2 on /mnt/clone starts and aborts. I check with sudo fdisk -l and see sda1 and 2. I had one copy work since the upgrade and at least 5 failures. sda2 is ext4
My problem is I dont know if this is local to me or if its happening to others.
If I get an answer I will know which way to direct my effort.
Sorry to hear your Pi4 has not arrived yet. My 1st delivery by DHL didnt arrive and was sent back to the supplier, who then sent it to me again.
regards Brian
“Pi4 Desktop kit comes to €130 or thereabouts – one could buy a mini-PC for much less from China”
Do you have any links to something reasonable for about that cost?
Endless links depending on what you need…
https://www.banggood.com/search/mini-pc.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/af/mini-pc.html?SearchText=mini+pc&d=y&initiative_id=SB_20190714081532&origin=n&catId=0&isViewCP=y&jump=afs
https://www.gearbest.com/mini%5E%5Epc-_gear/
look for Z83 if you want to go cheap (2gb ram, 32gb emmc)
or AP34 if you want more power… i bought this (6gb ram, 64emmc) for just 131€, look at amazon offers as today and tomorrow are PRIME days…
Thanks guys, always useful to have options.
I’m thinking that people may be worrying too much about the thermals. The Pi4 will self limit to keep within its safe thermal zone and I don’t think many of us are really experiencing regular CPU bound results – CPU speed is the only thing changed by the thermal limiting.
I would much rather have a slightly CPU limited silent device than a cooler, noisier one.
BTW, I’ll almost certainly be getting a 4GB version once the stock situation sorts itself out (who knows, maybe they will have revised the MB to fix the USB-C charging debacle as well by then). For me, being Memory bound is a common issue on both Pi’s & that is far more important than the other features.
Hello Pete
Hello Pete
I tried to repeat the process rp clone
rpi-clone via Putty to clone to usb is definitely “IFFY” on Buster tried directly to USB stick no card in both usb2 and usb3 both had problems to mount sda2 and aborted.
Initializing
Imaging past the start of /boot partition 2.
=> dd if=/dev/mmcblk0 of=/dev/sda bs=1M count=52 …
Resizing last partition to end of disk …
Resize success.
Changing destination Disk ID …
Delaying so partprobe can update /dev entries …
=> fsck -p /dev/sda1 …
=> mkfs -t ext4 /dev/sda2 …
Syncing file systems (can take a long time)
Syncing mounted partitions:
Mounting /dev/sda2 on /mnt/clone
mount: /mnt/clone: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sda2, missing codepage or helper program, or other error.
Mount failure of /dev/sda2 on /mnt/clone.
Aborting!
is my updated system perhaps not correctly updated or is my created folderwrong as I called it media not mnt does anyone else have this problem???
Further That was done with all cards image buster lite using etcher. Booting on updated upgraded stretch lite to Buster Pi4
Latest using card with stretch lite img by etcher can rp-clone
pi@raspberrypi:~ $ sudo rpi-clone -f -U sda
Booted disk: mmcblk0 15.9GB Destination disk: sda 31.9GB
—————————————————————————
Part Size FS Label Part Size FS Label
1 /boot 45.6MB fat32 — 1 44.5MB fat32 —
2 root 15.9GB ext4 — 2 1.8GB ext4 rootfs
—————————————————————————
== Initialize: IMAGE mmcblk0 partition table to sda – forced by option ==
1 /boot (40.4MB used) : IMAGE to sda1 FSCK
2 root (4.4GB used) : RESIZE(31.9GB) MKFS SYNC to sda2
—————————————————————————
Run setup script : no
Verbose mode : no
———————–:
** WARNING ** : All destination disk sda data will be overwritten!
: The partition structure will be imaged from mmcblk0.
———————–:
Initializing
Imaging past the start of /boot partition 2.
=> dd if=/dev/mmcblk0 of=/dev/sda bs=1M count=52 …
Resizing last partition to end of disk …
Resize success.
Changing destination Disk ID …
Delaying so partprobe can update /dev entries …
=> fsck -p /dev/sda1 …
=> mkfs -t ext4 /dev/sda2 …
Syncing file systems (can take a long time)
Syncing mounted partitions:
Mounting /dev/sda2 on /mnt/clone
=> rsync // /mnt/clone with-root-excludes …
Mounting /dev/sda1 on /mnt/clone/boot
=> rsync /boot/ /mnt/clone/boot …
Editing /mnt/clone/boot/cmdline.txt PARTUUID to use d96bc6b6
Editing /mnt/clone/etc/fstab PARTUUID to use d96bc6b6
===============================
Done with clone to /dev/sda
Start – 01:12:09 End – 01:19:03 Elapsed Time – 6:54
unmounting /mnt/clone/boot
unmounting /mnt/clone
===============================
*************************************************************************
So their appears to be a problem for rp-clone when using the img of Buster on the sd card you are going to clone to. If you use stretch lite img it appears to work
and runs ok as far as I have tested, still need to do more tests
Buster has a different boot system a boot strap into firmware, but can obviously be bypassed by the old system otherwise we could not boot.
usb boot will need a firmware update to work.
rpclone was done on usb3.0 connection.
regards Brian
Erm, I didn’t create any folders. I simply use RPI-CLONE as follows:
On an SD (USB) that I’ve not used before “sudo rpi-clone -f -U sda” and one one that has already been used for cloning “sudo rpi-clone -U sda”.
Yesterday, for the first time, having made a clone in SDA (16GB sd in USB adaptor), I simply turned off the PI, removed my original SD, restarted at which point the Pi ran the SDA version. I stuck a USB stick (32gb) into another USB socket on the PI, did “sudo rpi-clone -f -U sdb” and hence made another backup. All this on a PI upgraded recently (working installation) to Buster.
Not tried RPI4 yet as it hasn’t turned up – UK to Spain post takes a ridiculous amount if time, almost as quick to order from Hong Kong.
About to try a FRESH Buster installation on another RPI3.
Hello Pete
This was all done in Putty. The last time I did it was via hdmi terminal. Logged in as Pi both times
Regards Brian
Hello Pete
since the last update on Buster I cant see the usb dev that is my SD card in cardholder in usb. stick
even using to create a mount folder called it usb
a) sudo mkdir /media/usb
b) sudo chown -R pi:pi /media/usb
c) sudo mount /dev/sda1 /media/usb
4) sudo rpi-clone -f -U
a to b works C) now gives
media/usb: special device /dev/sda1 does not exist.
with sd inserted reboot the same result
This had worked before the updates.
I then tried taking the sd card out of its card holder and putting directly into my usbstick then ran rpi clone
This works !!!!!!!!!!!!
regards Brian
Hello Mr Shark
Thanks for the advice just watched #270 very imformative.
AS Iv never really looked at utube I hadnt relised testing had advanced to using blowtorches. I do remember when working for Plessey we used advanced forms of bash testing on units.
Just joking !! (not about the bash testing that was compulsory.)
Good site imformative
Regards Brian
Hello Pete
1st I like your idea to use the first flow for initialisation. Its now implemented in my RPI.
The cross pollination of ideas is one of the points to your site!
Further to temperature on Pi4 is their a standard test programm to load the beast for a temperature check? My pi4 is running 42 flows in my open stack and has a steady temperature of 37 °C.
I went to open stacks as for some years I was involved in cooling running machines on oil rigs, steel mills and all the variations. One of the basics was DO NOT IMPEDE the flow of air.
regards Brian
look at MickMake’s YouTube channel (advertised in Pete’s home in right column! 😀 ), as he does thorough tests of many SBC, look from 14:00 onwards: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHIld3cjmTM
and here Pete is image of stack version
regards Brian
hello Pete
Interesting about the high temperatures on the 4B. When I ordered my 2Gb one I didnt like the official enclosure so my pi was cooled by my table fan completely open. However I had ordered a open stack version to hold any version pff Raspi. The stack version holds 4 pis and I can access all fittings without taking it apart. Each pi has its own fan.. I see now they are doing a single version allso open (no sides etc) for 9,99€
Enclosed is link to Amazon with picture of item. I have the stacked version not this one. This one is available from 23rd July
Hi Brian
I use the first flow for initialisation as I recall the IBM guys saying that gets to run first generally.
At one time or another I’ve used Orange PIs and a ton of other boards as you can probaly tell from the blog. I could not find snything on any of those boards as easy and reliable as rpi-clone to back up the entire system so I ended up sticking with RPi – and now with the improvements, extra RAM and Buster it looks like that was a good move, much as it is otherwise very tempting to move to OrangePi2e and similar – with lots of serial ports. I hope to be joining you on RPI4 this weekend, Spanish postal service permitting, then doing the same again in the UK in the Autumn with my system there.
Last year I was using RPI2 then moved entirely to RPI3, despite having resigned myself to the notion that they’d never expand the RAM, thankfully they changed their minds. I’ll be more than happy with 2GB as I don’t use the desktop.
I went to Tynemouth Grammar Technical school and spent much time at the Spanish City. I think that’s where I first played “Daytona Racing” – it is certainly where I learned all about the Monaco track. I don’t recall fishing in Cullercoats but I do remember going out from there on a canoe (I have no idea why that isn’t spelled “canoo”).
Must admit I never thought or rebooting via Node-Red, I usually pop up a Mobaxterm terminal on my PC. Good idea.
“I use the first flow for initialisation as I recall the IBM guys saying that gets to run first generally.”
The first flow tab always runs first. The order of flows in a tab is the order you added them.
” rebooting via Node-Red”
Yes, I do that and restarted Node-RED via Node-RED too. Nice and easy to link it to a Telegram command as well.
Julian: My first tab is called init and I assumed the flows operated in the order you eventually place them ie top down, not as you originally added them. Am I wrong?
I think so, I’m fairly sure that they run in as-added order though I also put them in top-down order typically as it makes sense for reading.
Ultimately, you shouldn’t rely very much on order of processing in Node-RED. If you really want something to run first, you will need to code it into settings.js.
Hmm, I wonder if some clever persion could make a simple hack for settings.js that would ensure that nothing would sun until a particular flow had absolutely completed….
Hello Pete
I use the 1st flow in node-red for shutdown or reboot BUT also to let me know what Im running. I do this since I made some alterations on my orangepi2e’s where I thought I was on the sd card but I altered my emmc instead. On the emmc the first flow announces this is emmc!!!. All my devices are running the same flows as Im 75 I find it difficult to keep track
2 rp1 2
3 rpi3 b
now 1rpi4 2gb
Incidentally I went to school in your area.
Monkseaton spent 1 week in the new Secondary modern (1st boy to leave)
I was a military brat that I think was my 13th school, I stiil remember fishin in Cullercoats, and Spanish city in Whitleybay where I used to wheel on my home made buggy the luggage for the visitors from Glasgow (for a small fee)
Hello Pete
Further tests buster updated card boots on rpi3 in usb slot.
but as iv already said not in rpi4
As Im a belts and braces man (comes from commissioning paper machines and emergency callouts)
heres another way to upgrade to buster also works as Iv just tested it
https://pimylifeup.com/upgrade-raspbian-stretch-to-raspbian-buster/
Regards brian
The more the merrier – keep ’em coming.
I also upgraded via 4 liner to Buster but am having issues with PIVPN not seeing my win10 network share which worked before. Anyone else?
Buy official psu or beware to this…
https://www.google.com/amp/s/arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/07/raspberry-pi-4-uses-incorrect-usb-c-design-wont-work-with-some-chargers/
hello Pete
more details
my original program was Raspian stretch light Sept 2018 regularly updated via webmin run headless via ssh
The script was run installed were
Sqlite
Grafana
influx
Chronograf
webmin
apache
phpsysinf
rpi-clone
log2ram
regards brian
Hello Pete
a few more details. Im running raspian stretch light updated with the four liner.
1) Confirm cant boot via USB – will be an update in the future Can use the old dodge – boot by SD card useing prepared USB hd as storage and programme.
2) Used fdisk -l to look what drives are called, SD card is mmcblk0px the x is 1 or 2 partition
3) sudo rpi-clone -f .U aborted by mounting sda with wrong fs checked this twice
destination card in usb
so TRIED to create a mount folder called it usb
a) sudo mkdir /media/usb
b) sudo chown -R pi:pi /media/usb
c) sudo mount /dev/sda1 /media/usb
4) sudo rpi-clone -f .U
runs and writes successfully done
5) Try to boot by this in usb does not work not seen
6) Boot with this in SD cardholder success running perfectly pi4
7) Boot with this in Pi3 cardholder boots successfully Pi3
Hope this is usefull
regards Brian
Hello Pete
I used your 3 liner to updae my stretch on raspi3 worked a treat.
Then I copied to new Sd card inserted it into my Rasp 4 2Gb mem
worked without a problem I can confirm
regards Brian
Thanks Brian but for clarity I supplied that 4 liner on the blog to help you guys – I didn’t write it. Buster (which was thw dog in Pixar’s Toy Story in case anyone thought the name had some hidden significance) is of course the latest version of Debian Linux and the RPI guys have molded it for the Pi. It also now has the OpenGL video driver.
I did the NOT GUARANTEED in-place upgrade…as I have WAY too much stuff in my setup to start from scratch. Here’s the page with various options.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/raspbian-buster-upgrade,39735.html
Days later my upgrade to Buster is still working perfectly on a Pi3. My Pi4 will likely arrive at the weekend, I’m hoping for the same success.
actually, EVERY SINGLE Debian release is named by a Toy Story character 🙂
I see reports about Pi4 running significantly hotter than Pi3. Will Pi4 need a fan if run indoors? Any other comments/concerns/experience regarding Pi4 heat?
many reviews online and on youtube…
That’s an un-answerable question Kris as you’ve provided no-where near enough info on you use case. Are you running the Pi headless or at the other end of the scale with a pair of 4k outputs etc. What peripherals will be plugge into it? What is the ambient temperature? Id it cased? Does the case have a fan or fans? See my point? Indoors in Southern Spain is very different to indoors in the UK, air-con or not? Lots of other variables.
Yes, my question was very broad. Was hoping for some general feedback. But you’re right, lots of variables, so let me try again:
Let’s say you have a Pi3 indoors ( around 25C air) headless running the programs installed by The Script. Will this Pi3 run OK with just a heatsink and no fan?
Now if that Pi3 is replaced by a Pi4, will a heatsink alone work or will it need a fan?
I think you can see where I’m going here. I don’t like fans, they die too quick. So I’d choose to stick with a Pi3 (or even lesser Pi) rather than upgrade to a Pi4 with a fan.
I’ll let you know when my Pi4 turns up – I’m running s PI3 B+ right now with no fan, the tempetature sensor says 49c. The ambient temperature in my office is around 28c during the day. I’m using it headless and should be able to directly compare with the Pi4 when it turns up. There is an audio amp connected to it and a backup SD in a USB shell – wired ethernet – that’s it.
TL;DR version: “Without any cooling, the CPU will reach temperatures around 80°C. Given that the Raspberry Pi’s CPU throttles at just above 80°C to lower its temperature, if you’re pushing the CPU hard then it’s likely it will throttle.”
long version:
active cooling is a must if you want to get serious… this guy is WAY more powerful as previous versions… full thermal comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd_lQSlq6FU
just a fan, or better an heatsink and a fan, are what you need…
and update it to latest firmware, as this will decrease temperature by about 5°: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ93WYrbA4s
the heatsink+double fan is the best option: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzgo0ccn0PM
the nicier is the pimoroni heatsink+fan shim: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pimoroni-fan-shim-heatsink-raspberry-pi-4,6219.html
its test: https://blog.pimoroni.com/raspberry-pi-4-thermals-and-fan-shim/
more heat tests: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWsM69_5g4E
article contains nice script to monitor temperature of both cpu and gpu: https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/linux-find-out-raspberry-pi-gpu-and-arm-cpu-temperature-command/
Antonio, that’s a good thought. I have currently got the Home Assistant Docker set up running on an Intel NUC (Ubuntu 18.04.2) and I really like it. The updates to Node-RED, Grafana, Influx etc. are so easy. Making back ups is so easy too. Bonus is there is no SD card!! 8Gb ram + 120 Gb SSD.
I want to try pivpn and pi-hole so the new 4Gb version should be a good candidate.
I have to say, though, I have a pi 3B running a version of Peter’s script from about 2 years ago and it just sits there doing its thing day in, day out, through power cuts and whatever gets thrown at it. I use it for one of my mosquitto brokers and an ancient version of Node-RED. Maybe time to upgrade to Peter’s latest script. Then again, it aint broke……………….
yup, backup on hass.io is soooo easy… take snapshots and move them wherever you want… i set up google drive backup as per one of DrZzs video’s, easy to do… it’s a bit more complicated to pass through real hardware of the host to the hass.io container, but there are info out there, and in the end i prefer having external devices not connected to my main controller…
just released: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekVfLXnoM7k
there are easier ways to do many of the things he does, btw…
about vpn, take a look at hass.io addons, there’s zerotier there: https://github.com/hassio-addons/addon-zerotier
also this is sooo useful to protect your setup and expose services with fewer ports opened on router (just 443, usually): https://github.com/hassio-addons/addon-nginx-proxy-manager
p.s.: don’t use Pete’s script to update, it’s not meant for this… always use fresh install and then the usual operating system facilities…
Maybe this is the poke I need to set up my own Node Red server…
Is yours hosted locally or in The Cloud? What to do about security?
Mine is local and pivpn for security.
Thank you. Haven’t come across PiVPN before. I’m no security expert but it looks promising!
I’m no VPN expert either and yes it is promising and easy to use.
I got a 4Gb version from Pi-Hut on third attempt. I’ve had it about a week now. I’ve now got to decide what to do with it! I got the official PSU as well. Definitely looking forward to what you make of it though Peter.
Excellent. Could be a week before I get the hardware as it is coming from the UK to Spain. I did take the opportunity to upgrade my Pi3 setup to Buster. So far so good.
the 4gb model is ideal for a docker setup… you guys should be start playing with it 🙂
Ordered the 4 GB and won’t see it until after August 1st. Oh well, something to look forward to.
I don’t know why everyone advertises the 4GB version when noone seems to have it in stock. My 2 GB board is on the way thankfully.
One other thing to note. It appears to support (at least on the board,) power over ethernet. If you look behind the ethernet connecter, you can see the jumpers for it.
I am not sure if it is implemented or not, but would be helpful for those out of the way places you may place your Pi.
There already is a POE Hat for the Pi.
https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/raspberry-pi-poe-hat
It’s got the added advantage of adding cooling for the CPU at the same time.
Received mine in the post mid-morning today – not bad considering I only ordered it from Pimoroni yesterday morning and they would have had a manic day of things.
One thing to note – its best to use an HDMI to MicroHDMI cable – NOT an adapter – as the adapter I already had (from several years ago for use with a Friendly Arm NanoPi board of some description) was too bulky to fit alongside the USB C power plug.
I had to use a craft knife to carve a bit of the plastic away on the MicroHDMI to Female HDMI dongle otherwise they would not both fit in side by side. Only a few millimetres but worth mentioning. Amazon delivered a MicroHDMI to HDMI cable this afternoon and that has a much smaller footprint at the Pi side and it’s not as tight.
Thermals … I’m running OpenELEC’s Raspberry Pi 4 new build and it gets quite warm in normal use – even with Pimoroni’s Pi4 big (40x30x5mm) Heatsink. It’s not throttling back – but equally there’s not as much headroom as I’d like. Pimoroni do a really ‘cool’ (pun intended) Fan Shim that can be used for active cooling and they claim a 25 degree C temperature drop with that – but they had sold out of those by 07:03 yesterday when I was ordering (only read the e-mail announcement at 07:00)
I am not sure how long the MicroHDMI socket would last with a ‘dongle’ adapter used and lots of plugging and unplugging due to the mechanical advantage/leverage exhibited by a bit plug/cable on a small socket. Time will tell I guess… Presumably MicroHDMI was used for space reasons – two HDMI outputs on the Pi4 and there’s only so much room to break things out the side of such a small PCB.
Pimoroni had sold out of the official Pi 4 Raspberry Pi case so I’m using Pimoroni’s own design “Pibow Coupe Ninja” case. I prefer a proper fully closed design but equally can see the appeal of the ‘lego’ style funky rainbow colour offerings in the Pibow range.
I’m testing with LibreELEC (usually I’m an OSMC person but they are a bit behind on the software catch-up). I also intend trying out this allegedly “usable” desktop, and the two-screen outputs – but all in good time.
for media player like stuff, i just went for this… costs less than a 1gb raspberry, has all it’s needed to work (psu, remote, proper case, hdmi cable), and it just works… no fuss no muss… why all this interest in rpi as a mediaplayer, i don’t know…
https://www.ebay.it/itm/Q-Plus-Smart-TV-Box-Android-9-0-Allwinner-H6-4GB-32GB-6K-Lettore-WiFi-G7E7/312643980534
less than 30€ using coupon “PROMOGIU19” before 30/6/2019
Totally agree on there being cheaper and easier devices for media playing but I am just using the setup for testing purposes. Particularly network throughput which wasn’t the best on previous Pis.
The thermals aren’t great. The Pi3B+ improved on the earlier Pi3 for this but the extra power of the 4 means things are running hotter again so whilst previously people fitted fans unnecessarily on earlier Pi models they may be more necessary with the 4.
https://www.cnx-software.com/2019/06/26/raspberry-pi-4-4k-video-playback-libreelec/
Hello Pete
noticed I had German in last comment
the price INCLUSIVE of tax postage is extra
regards
Hello Pete
confirm they have the stock as DHL just sent me tracking number
sent today
Thats QUICK I only ordered it last night
For those interested they have the 4GB rpi
at
Preis wie konfiguriert 58,69 €
inkl. 19% USt. , zzgl. Versand (Standard Versand)
regards Brian
Anyone with more shopping links, feel free to pass them on in here (only if they actually have the boards in stock please).
I ordered a 4GB one at 07:03 this morning – 3 minutes after reading the announcement in my emails. Hopefully receive it tomorrow (Tues)
We’re all showing a lot of confidence, I can’t help thinking we wouldn’t be so quick to rush in if it was a Microsoft update 🙂 – right…. debit card at the ready….
hello Pete
https://www.rasppishop.de/Raspberry-Pi-4-Modell-B-2GB-SDRAM
IN STOCK 47,49 €.
Just ordered
Regards Brian
Righto, well, I guess I’ll have to go out and get one. That’s any hope of selling off my old RPI2 boards dashed 🙂
the only disappointing thing is the lack of an integrated (or integratable via some connector like other sbcs) emmc storage, to get rid of that hideous microsd card…
the “good” thing is that it has a SPI NOR flash from which it can boot from network, so maybe this will be a not to bad alternative, thanks to gigabit eth…
mmm, nope, at least for now… from: https://blog.mythic-beasts.com/2019/06/22/raspberry-pi-on-raspberry-pi/
“We were really excited by the Pi 4 and wanted to have them available in our cloud for launch day. Unfortunately, Eben had some bad news for us: netboot on the Pi 4 is only going to be added in a future firmware update. Netboot is critical to the operation of our cloud, as it prevents customers from bricking the servers. Our dreams were shattered.”